Easy Language Selection Option

[Aztek 2]

Hi,

I have many times wondered why some things cant be easier, such as changing language in ApexDC++, why don't the language files come installed with the client

so, i made this as an idea for future versions...

the idea is simple, ad a directory inside apex dir called Languages (f.ex: C:\Program Files\ApexDC++\Languages), in there are the language XML files, the application reads from the xml file what the name of the language is and shows it on that list when it is asked to...

If a user selects a language and clicks OK, the application pops out a warning that the language will not be loaded until the client is restarted (unless crise figures out a way to load a language file on the fly)

Good idea ?

Edited August 10, 2007 by Aztek

[Noctis 0]

It looks like a good idea, but I think it's not so important, because the handling of language files is easy enough if you ask me (well, newbies struggle with it first, but if they take the time to visit forums or read some FAQ, it's fine). I can imagine it as a minor tuning of the client. :P

[Greg 0]

I only know one language fluently so I can't have much input, but even so I can't see why you'd need to switch often between languages unless you're translating them. Once you're using your language I can't imagine any need to change. Would be interested to hear if there's much demand for it.

[Aztek 2]

thing is that it is sometimes annoying to have to answer the same question million times

"How do i set my application to {insert language name}"

having it like this its only a matter of saying, "goto settings and then click Select Language"

Edited August 11, 2007 by Aztek

[Zlobomir 3]

Could be even a step in the installer (ask for lang).

[Greg 0]

Well I don't think this feature is going to solve the problem, what needs to be added is the option to get a hold of language files more easily. Maybe it could be added to the installer, but the language files are provided by members of the forums and we can't be sure how good they are. Probably still worth adding with a warning though. Should need any changes to the actual client for this.

[Satan 1]

Or everyone could learn the speak english? :D

[Greg 0]

Or everyone could learn the speak english?

Heh, most people already do, but it's broken English. We should all start learning Chinese Mandarin maybe.

[Satan 1]

I dont really like the chinese 'for personal reasons'.

Sorry.

[Noctis 0]

I started to learn English about 8 years ago, but I knew a lot of words from PC Games and apps already. A lot of people in my country speak English (well enough) but still use the Hungarian language file for DC. I tried some language file for a DC client (StrongDC++ I think), but it didn't work out for me. Sometimes I wasn't satisfied with the translations, or simply preferred it in English (there are some English words and phrases that just don't need translation, because it won't be perfect or it will sound dumb in Hungarian - especially slang, but not really the case now), and vice versa. And I love English anyways, so I always use English language file in every application (except OS, that came in my language). Can never have enough practice anways... :)

[Greg 0]

Considering the English language has the largest vocabulary of any language, there's bound to some words which don't translate well into other languages, then again I doubt many are used in ApexDC++. If a language file available in your native language is well written and is well readable then I would assume it's worth having.

[Mikey_69 0]

Would be really nice to have a choose language option, I often switch between Swedish and English, depending on mood.

I have started translating Apex into Swedish, but many words can have multiple meanings and I'm trying to figure out which one to use. (anyone who wants to help me can PM me for a list of words I have q's about)

[Zlobomir 3]

Considering the English language has the largest vocabulary of any language...

Sorry, what did you say? It is just a thing I am highly sensitive to, Bulgarian and Russian, probably other Slavic languages are imHo far, far richer than English, not to mention number of tenses, polite forms, cases (inflections), etc. It is another story that some phrases are too long when translated and sound dumb. But dumb soundling is true also for translations into English. Even looking at cyrillic alphabet, there are letters which do not exist in Latin one, and some letters can't be transliterated even (yes, there is a code, but it slightly s*x).

[Greg 0]

Sorry, what did you say? It is just a thing I am highly sensitive to, Bulgarian and Russian, probably other Slavic languages are imHo far, far richer than English, not to mention number of tenses, polite forms, cases (inflections), etc. It is another story that some phrases are too long when translated and sound dumb. But dumb soundling is true also for translations into English. Even looking at cyrillic alphabet, there are letters which do not exist in Latin one, and some letters can't be transliterated even (yes, there is a code, but it slightly s*x).

The largest dictionary in the world is the Oxford English Dictionary with about 1.5 million entries. No other dictionary even come close in terms of word count. However I agree that the words in a dictionary don't cover all dialects etc. but you must remember how widely spoken English is across the globe. English is the primary language in Britain, America, Canada, Australia and more. There are many different forms of English in each of these places, I can think of many different ones in England alone. Add this to the fact that many people speak broken English, or as a second language... Lots and lots more different versions of the language. English has the largest vocabulary of any language as far as I'm aware.

[Noctis 0]

That may be learn, but English is one of the easiest languages to learn. I couldn't image how would I learn Russian for one. Hungarian is considered to be the 2nd hardest language to learn (the first by some opinions.)

[Greg 0]

That may be learn, but English is one of the easiest languages to learn. I couldn't image how would I learn Russian for one. Hungarian is considered to be the 2nd hardest language to learn (the first by some opinions.)

With the English language there's always more to learn. Hungarian may be harder to get to a point where you can have proper conversations, but English is harder to master due to the sheer amount of words there are, and it's not too strict, most grammatical errors are widely accepted. Also there's so many little nonsensical little paradoxes in the English language, little random quirks that you just to except and try to understand. So many words don't make sense as they are constructed from other words yet seem to have nothing to do with it. English muffins are not from England, and neither are French fries from France, just as there is no egg in eggplant or pine (or apple) in a pineapple. These are little things that can be remembered, but it all adds up. Plurals also are not consistent some words change (tooth to teeth) twice others simply add an S. We have a huge vocabulary yet also have multiple (but rather different) meanings for the same word. "The dove dove down", "I had to subject the subject to a series of tests", "I will not object to the object". So many phrases which can be used which at first I would assume can be rather confusing. Other grammar may be simple but once you start to really use the English language there are so many random little things which you have to learn, there are so many exceptions to any spelling rule you learn. English is easy to get started with but I imagine that these little things which must be understood mean that you really have to actively use the language a lot to pick them up/understand them. A lot of the English language seems illogical to me, and when I've studied other languages they seem to stick to their rules a lot more, at the same time I can't imagine that any other language allows for the complexity of explanations that English allows, there are so many words and they mean that you really communicate what you mean quite well.

The thing which would really make Hungarian harder to learn is that there are less facilities (in most of the world at least) which offer courses on the language.

[Kulmegil 1]

omg... back to the topic.

I think it would be great to have language selection box (witch will list all language files in directory), and a quick link to the box (maybe in Settings -> General). Even ability to load some default file in default config. would make a difference.

[MiRaGe 0]

That may be learn, but English is one of the easiest languages to learn. I couldn't image how would I learn Russian for one. Hungarian is considered to be the 2nd hardest language to learn (the first by some opinions.)

you're right, it's the hardest, even chinese ppl cannot understand it

anyway ... it would be another good option to include for those who don't really speak english or any other languages (probably an option at the beginning to select the language of the installation also, if we're here at the point) .... but at this century, i think everyone who can switch on a computer and connect to the internet has to know these few expressions used while installation and language setting ...

and to be hones, i think as the main language more ppl speak spanish globally, but nothing other :crying:

english is an easy to learn language, and it's also to get to the language settings in apex :pinch:

[Greg 0]

Assuming Apex remembers the location that you open your language files from, I'm surprised people want this. It'd still only accessible from the same place in the Settings? Maybe if it made downloading of language files then it'd help, but this feature is just requesting that Apex detects which language files are installed and presents them in a list for the user... Surely opening browse and selecting the file is just as quick if Apex remembers the directory.

[Zlobomir 3]

What about a little off-topic again?

Excuse me Greg, but English is spread so much exactly because it is so easy. And so many errors are accepted exactly because it is so widely spread. As for the words you cited, you really shoot at yourself - these are simply descriptive, constructed from two words. In Bulgarian, and I believe Hungarian there are not such words. Egg-plant is патладжан, pineapple is ананас. Speaking of pine, we call different needle-trees бор, ела, кедър, пиния, кипарис, etc., not just pine-blabla, blabla-pine. We have also a verb tense which I can not translate even closely (let's say I haven't mastered English). These are the signs of a rich lang imo, not just a vast list. If I have to resume, rich language takes time.

@Staff - Maybe splitting to Lounge?

[Kulmegil 1]

Assuming Apex remembers the location that you open your language files from, I'm surprised people want this. It'd still only accessible from the same place in the Settings? Maybe if it made downloading of language files then it'd help, but this feature is just requesting that Apex detects which language files are installed and presents them in a list for the user... Surely opening browse and selecting the file is just as quick if Apex remembers the directory.

So to the point, my proposition:

• Add /Languages dictionary to Apex++ root
  
• Add language selection button into "cool Apex first startup screen" pointing default to <Apex++ root>/Languages dictionary
  

Simple and very user friendly.

[Greg 0]

So to the point, my proposition:

• Add /Languages dictionary to Apex++ root
  
• Add language selection button into "cool Apex first startup screen" pointing default to <Apex++ root>/Languages dictionary
  

Simple and very user friendly.

Seeing as the translation files are very small we could really package them with the installer and allow the user to set a language pack during install, too. The issue with this is that we are an open source project, we're not paying people to do the translations and for them to installed with the installer we would need copies of the translation files before a release, which just isn't practical as not all translators are beta testers and as such don't have access to the program to complete translations. Getting hold of a language file and then adding it is definitely something that can be worked on, but the current situation is acceptable. A first user screen is something which we should really think about adding, with useful links to help people understand this new program they've opened.

[Kulmegil 1]

but You can:

a ) make full release with translations if there was beta or RC sooner

b ) make lite version of apex (small without translations and extras) and bigger (more emos & all translations) following later.

c ) one can make custom installer with language file making it easy for n00bs

besides the point is to make lang. selection as painless as possible ;)

[Greg 0]

but You can:

a ) make full release with translations if there was beta or RC sooner

b ) make lite version of apex (small without translations and extras) and bigger (more emos & all translations) following later.

c ) one can make custom installer with language file making it easy for n00bs

besides the point is to make lang. selection as painless as possible

How long after a release do we wait until releasing this larger installer with language files? Or instead of waiting a certain amount of time should we wait until certain languages have been translated? If so, which languages should we wait for? We have next to no control over the translations, they get updated by members of the community who do it for free to help others, and they do it in their own time, which could be one week, could be never. What we need to do is let the installer optionally download extras which the user wants, such as emoticon packs and language files. If we could get the installer to work out which language were availble for download from a file on the internet then it would be good. We could simply update that file as new languages (or emoticon packs) were added and they'd become availble in the installer without us updating it. Whether this is possible depends on the installer software we use, but it is worth looking into and if it is possible it's definitely worth adding for version 1 final. (Seeing as it would only be an update to the installer not the client itself.)

[Coder 0]

Considering the English language has the largest vocabulary of any language, there's bound to some words which don't translate well into other languages...

Try to translate Finnish vocabulary to English...that is a difficult task...example below

http://users.tkk.fi/~jpakkane/sana.html (Finnish allows for words of arbitrary length)

The word is made possible by the grammatical rules of the Finnish language. Finnish uses compound words instead of prepositions to describe complicated things. Take for example the word "rauta", iron. You can add the word "tie", road, to the end and get "rautatie", a railway. You can also add the word "hammas", a tooth, to the beginning to get "hammasrauta", braces (literally an iron of the tooth). The fun part is that it is grammatically correct to join these two words to get "hammasrautatie". This is a concise and compact word meaning a railway that runs on teeth or a road made of braces. (Although, being a pun, it is quite impossible to translate properly.) This word can then be extended to "hammasrautatietyö", which means repairs on the tooth railway and so on.