Remote client does not fully support TTH - cannot download

[к¢kMåñ 0]

Remote client does not fully support TTH - cannot download

I keep getting this same message when trying to check other users clients and files that I suspect of faking. What have i configured wrong? Or is it something in the new 0.300 version of ApexDC++ Client? I can't do my job fairly without checking to make sure they are faking.

Will the OP version be able to check clients much easier? I appreciate any help you can give me. I just want to be a good OP.

Thank you,

к¢kMåñ

[Lee 84]

StrongDC++ removed support for non-TTH clients, hence you can't download off them.

http://forums.apexdc.net/index.php?showtopic=923

[к¢kMåñ 0]

StrongDC++ removed support for non-TTH clients, hence you can't download off them.

http://forums.apexdc.net/index.php?showtopic=923

Thanks for the reply Lee, but I dont understand why the support was removed. It made my job as OP much more difficult. I'm really considering changing clients once again until your OP clinet is ready for the public.

[Lee 84]

Thanks for the reply Lee, but I dont understand why the support was removed. It made my job as OP much more difficult. I'm really considering changing clients once again until your OP clinet is ready for the public.

The OP Client won't be ready for some time, and it won't allow you to connect to clients that don't support TTH.

Why allow clients that corrupt downloads in your hub? :)

[Sidetrack 0]

NOTE: without having the TTH verify function, there is NO way to make sure that the files that are being downloaded are not corrupted. Also, working with segmenting files, (multisourcing) it needs the TTH to be able to recognize that the files are exactly the same, so it does not corrupt. If you suscpect a user using a client that does not utilize TTH, its probably an older DCDM (modified for this purpose), R2, which has many problems atm, or DC stealthy (older version also) in any case, for DC to continue to evolve, ppl must make decisions like this to keep DC better quality. How many times did ppl from KaZaa download "Crap".. now how often does this happen in DC?.. heck look at the number of virus's on DC compared to other P2P based programs.. Thats one of the primary reasons I went to using DC and created the support hub.. hope this helps, if not, simply ignore it..

[Zlobomir 3]

Yes, but he is also right to some degree... A good OP should be able to make exceptions, that's why we are people. To make exception, he needs to verify the filelist. To verify the filelist, he needs support for non-TTH clients. Otherwise it is like making opinion for people based of their clothes (which is reasonable to some degree), or thinking that the best driver drives the newest car... So if an OP wants to have a good, clean and accessible for ALL clients hub, he needs a modern client with full support for ALL preceding clients. I know it's useless to try to convince you though. :D

[Pedja 0]

I prefer if you leave me to decide if I want to risk corrupted files or not. Intul the latest version of Apex, it worked fine with all of other clients. Now, I have problem with some clients because they (by Apex) do not support TTH. Problem is that peopel use old computers, cannot instal the latest Apex since it won't work adn we actualy do not use DC for massive downlads, but for internal file share.

It is ok to leave us an option to protect against corrupted download, but as long as it is AN OPTION.

I have enough problems to convince peopel tpo use Apex as they clain when they do, they found out that they are banned from more and more other hubs. If it canot be used on our local hub just for these unreasonable limitations, it would be abandoned in time. If it makes unreasonable problems for us, we wil replace it with other one, which does not.

[Big Muscle 1]

I prefer if you leave me to decide if I want to risk corrupted files or not.

But it's not your right here. DC++ is about sharing and not only about downloading and there's big probability that you will share downloaded files.

[Pedja 0]

But it's not your right here. DC++ is about sharing and not only about downloading and there's big probability that you will share downloaded files.

But it is stil not right of software author to enforce that rule. If some hub allows clients that allow sharing corrupted files, so be it. If hub does not want that risk, it will ban problematic clients. Apex authors have nthing to do with what I download and what I share. That is entirely my responsibility.

After all what is next? Can we expect that Apex will enforce copyright protection and refuse to share or download anything that my be illegal? I do not want to download illegal stuff, so do I have legitimate right to demand Apex to protect me from that too by refusing to share illegal contents?

[Crise 26]

Pedja, support for the old technologies will always be dropped at some point, and fulDC did it first for DC, as far as I know, then DC++ removed support for nmdc style filelists and now StrongDC has removed non-tth downloading... and I'm quite sure the list will continue to grow over time.

[MiRaGe 0]

Pedja, support for the old technologies will always be dropped at some point, and fulDC did it first for DC, as far as I know, then DC++ removed support for nmdc style filelists and now StrongDC has removed non-tth downloading... and I'm quite sure the list will continue to grow over time.

that's why we don't allow old dc clients to log in to our hubs. maybe less users, but no corrupted shares

i think it's another way to make ppl change their old stuff, like we always have to change our cars, and shoes, cuz they get old and unusable ... but unlike those changing client is for free.

i've also met with this problem, but simply asked the other guy to change the client to this one and voilá ... problem solved.

btw .... i've seen an option for checking exclude ... for example if someone is [VIP].... then nothing will happen if the op can't get his/her list, and again .... problem solved :)

[Sidetrack 0]

sorry guys.. in my opinion clients that don't support this move or that are not up to the newer standards, aka old clients, should be considered EOL or end of life, Even anything lower than PWDC .4x has reached this stage, and is not supported by the PWDC/Apex Support hub. Please note, we try to help when we can but are not going to jump through hoops for it. how long should support be around for Old clients.. should we support DC++ .3.01?

or version 1.0? I dont think so.. might as well continue to support NMDC itself

[Zlobomir 3]

IMHO, as a very very small OP of a very very small hub, IF I like to have old clients in my hub, I SHOULD be able to communicate with them, and check them, although even more intensely than the TTH-checking ones, to ensure that files are OK. In my point of view, in this way I can be a really good OP. Not fighting for max. number of users, just for their sympathy. And SOME software, be it Apex or else, MUST not limit my freedom as OP. Otherwise I will be forced to do the OP work with an old, non-TTH compatible client. And if the hubsofts also start to behave nasty with non-TTH clients, I will be forced to stop upgrading the hubsoft. And this way back to the OS. Do you think it's reasonable, instead of just adding non-TTH support for the Apex OP client? Actually, do the clients have the "moral" right to leave the non-TTH support before the hubsofts?

Edited December 1, 2006 by Zlobomir

[Ð.Sp!dér 0]

I'm OK with the fact that they can't get our filelist. And I'm also 99% OK with the fact that I can't get THEIR filelist.

BUT WHY THE HELL ARE THEY STILL DOWNLOADING FROM ME ??

That's not frikin' fair ! :)

[Big Muscle 1]

BUT WHY THE HELL ARE THEY STILL DOWNLOADING FROM ME ??

BECAUSE WE ARE NOT THE LEECHERS!!!!!!!!!!!!! GO AWAY FROM DIRECT CONNECT IF YOU DON'T WANT TO UPLOAD!!!!!!!!!!

[Lee 84]

Ok people. Calm down please. :)

[Zlobomir 3]

BECAUSE WE ARE NOT THE LEECHERS!!!!!!!!!!!!! GO AWAY FROM DIRECT CONNECT IF YOU DON'T WANT TO UPLOAD!!!!!!!!!!

Hmmm, I just can't agree so easy with this. THEY ARE THE LEECHERS. THEY SHOULD GO AWAY FROM DIRECT CONNECT. WHY (the hell) WE SHOULD TOLERATE THEM?

And the argument for OP clients doesn't count much, since OPs should care for filelist more, and they can't get it from us now.

Note: I do not have any problem with this at all, so I'm pretty sure I am fair and impartial.

P. S. Lee, I am seeing the calm down advice, but there is too much text to rewrite in Sentence Case. Please read accordingly. :)

Edited December 7, 2006 by Zlobomir

[Big Muscle 1]

I agree with you that they should go away from DC, but it should be ensured by hubowners and OPs.

And no, they are not leechers, because they don't block anything :)

[spyke 0]

As long as filesharing exists, so will leechers get used to it.

[Ð.Sp!dér 0]

And no, they are not leechers, because they don't block anything

They block filelist even if they don't want to, wich is very close to blocking an upload.

[Big Muscle 1]

no they doesn't :-P they normally send their filelist to every client which asks for it... but our client doesn't ask for it :)

[Greg 0]

They block filelist even if they don't want to, wich is very close to blocking an upload.

It's not (hopefully) by choice though. On private hubs I'm on, there is still people using PWDC++, you're not doing it in order to to leech. They're doing it because they don't have enough time to even chat on the hub often let alone keep their client up to date. This will probably be a topic for debate for a while to come, but I can accept the current situation. We cannot support old clients forever, if DC++ has put this in, I don't see how people can complain.

As to the person who said it isn't up to the programmes' authors as to what they download and it wouldn't be our place to stop them downloading copyrighted content or whatever. Well, I disagree, we make what we feel to be the best decision we can, this client is open source and if you don't agree with our decisions then feel free to download the source and change it as you require. It is up to the author of the programme, and you can "author"/edit it yourself, according to what you want.

[Pedja 0]

I agree with you that they should go away from DC, but it should be ensured by hubowners and OPs.

That is the point. Decision is up to the hub owners not client developers. Apex developers are trying to force their own opinions through software. They make software which is basicaly incopatible with other DC clients and just make hard time to all of us.

If some client are outdated then they should not be able to connect to DC at all. If they can connect and can download, then others should be able to connect and download from them. That is just that simple.

It is not up to developer to decide who to I would connect and why. It is my decision and decision of hub owner.

[Big Muscle 1]

Apex developers are trying to force their own opinions through software. They make software which is basicaly incopatible with other DC clients and just make hard time to all of us.

No, they don't :-P The change has been made by author of DC++, the most used client. There's no other so wide-spread client and since original NMDC client is dead, there's no reason to maintain the support for it.

it's true that it's not up to developers to decide which clients it can connect to, but it's up to developers whether their client will manage files without TTH (which can be corrupted, but you can't verify that).

[Crise 26]

BM did reply to your post very well and if i'd do what my brain tells me to I'd delete this post, but I personally got very pissed off by your attitude, so here is my response as well...

That is the point. Decision is up to the hub owners not client developers. Apex developers are trying to force their own opinions through software. They make software which is basicaly incopatible with other DC clients and just make hard time to all of us.

If some client are outdated then they should not be able to connect to DC at all. If they can connect and can download, then others should be able to connect and download from them. That is just that simple.

It is not up to developer to decide who to I would connect and why. It is my decision and decision of hub owner.

Okay, calm down and don't say things unless you know them as valid...

Which you can't in this case, because as far as I know you are not me or even myself and no you not I either... and I don't think you are Lee.

As for your comment "Apex developers are trying to force their own opinions through software.", yes and no, you see I have my reasons to add or not to add certain features to ApexDC or to do changes to it, which are often directly or indirectly related to my opinions and views but sometimes the reason behind a feature, change or the decision not to include it are not based on my opinion alone or not at all, but instead the reasons for adding it outweigh the reasons for not adding it or vice versa. (but also note that the word force is completely wrong in your statement, we by no means force you to use ApexDC)

As for "and just make hard time to all of us.", I believe there are many that can say that this change hasn't made there life any harder, ok sometimes everyone will get annoyed because of this, even I get annoyed because of this change sometimes, but you know I can live with it, because I know that once time passes this annoyance will slowly become more and more rare... but just to make it clear our intention never was to specifically make users have hard time.

As for "If some client are outdated then they should not be able to connect to DC at all", this just isn't possible in a network like DC and you should've realized it by now.

As for "It is not up to developer to decide who to I would connect and why.", Oh your right we (developers) are not deciding who you would connect nor why, we only decide what our programs support and what they doesn't, this way we decide to how old clients our programs can connect to but no means we decide who you would connect to because we can't, we are not you.

And as that being said I'm now taking similar attitude that you did above...

Just face it in open source world, in our (GPL) case anyways, the developer has no obligation to support any versions/technologies he doesn't want to, just as he has no obligation to keep the software maintained nor provide warranty for it... as is said in countless places:

This program is distributed in the hope that it will be useful, but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. See the GNU General Public License for more details.

(esp. note the place about fitness for particular purpose)

And no we are also not required to listen what the users say, we however chose to do so but nothing prevents us from doing otherwise any time, any day, any country... or any case.

In other words ApexDC is provided "as is" or "not at all" those are the choices we give to you, if you choose the later just press the "Delete" button on top of ApexDC.exe

Please also note Lee, I and others do this without getting anything, we don't/didn't get the food we eat by doing this nor the clothes we wear or the place we live in. We do this on our free time while living our regular life, to get all the aforementioned things and more.