Apex DC++ speed mod

[hellfire 0]

-- link removed, as per request --

Never knew there was a modification of an application which is already a modification in itself :whistling:

[Crise 26]

StrongDC++ is derived from DC++ thus ApexDC++ itself is already a modification of a modification :whistling:

[Lee 84]

Hi hellfire,

We don't actually recommend this mod since it has a 200 maximum segment limit, which inevitably takes too much slots off other users.

[Coder 0]

StrongDC++ is derived from DC++ thus ApexDC++ itself is already a modification of a modification :stuart:

yep there is modifications going on every where..someones are doing by self at the own dark basement with much pepsi and microwave pizza's and are looking on someones code that have been made with same hobbies...it is a recursive mod.

Some cases the development are more organized like this project (I hope )...but still much pepsi and pizza are involved heh

Take good features of the old client's which has been done..it is wise...don't need to invent the bicycle again...and when the good (not the bad) features has been added from the old clients...then it's the time to invent some new features...like it will done in ApexDC++ client ;)

[Kulmegil 1]

It has some good ideas, and some bad.

Those bad are not only removed limitations, also slot for OPs downloading FLs, tag editing (only client and version), posibility to ban users if they don't meet requied slots, share size or speed cap. And that's a hub job not user to decide on that.

But mod has some cool ideas like Super User (now in Apex), highlighting shared files in FLs / Search / Search Spy and giving slots for user that You download from. Some more would be good to have in Apex later.

[SMT 0]

We don't actually recommend this mod since it has a 200 maximum segment limit, which inevitably takes too much slots off other users.

well, it's up to user to decide, how much segments to use

[Crise 26]

It is... but it's also not right for the user to take every single (read: too many/most of) slot on the hub or hubs.

[Lee 84]

well, it's up to user to decide, how much segments to use

It's the developer's responsibility to ensure features are not abused within their client. :whistling:

[TYRRAM 0]

no developer has the right to tell any user whats right or wrong its up to the user to decide. Who are we to take the moral high ground when we are all copyright infringers if you want to get technical about morality anyone who downloads anything on dc is a thief ! What client I use or what mod I use is my choice and if the hub doesnt like it its thier right to kick me it has nothing to do with who invented the technology or who improved on the technology. If we start punishing people who are creative and inventive there will be no improvments at all. I remember when everyone said strong dc was wrong. Without the kind of people who make mods apex wouldnt exist. thats my 2 cents.

[Zlobomir 3]

no developer has the right to tell any user whats right or wrong its up to the user to decide. Who are we to take the moral high ground when we are all copyright infringers if you want to get technical about morality anyone who downloads anything on dc is a thief ! What client I use or what mod I use is my choice and if the hub doesnt like it its thier right to kick me it has nothing to do with who invented the technology or who improved on the technology. If we start punishing people who are creative and inventive there will be no improvments at all. I remember when everyone said strong dc was wrong. Without the kind of people who make mods apex wouldnt exist. thats my 2 cents.

Yes, I believe you are right. BUT:

1. Morality - We do not encourage people to download copyrighted stuff. If you are stealing something, that does not mean we all are criminals, beg your pardon. F. ex. Solingen can not be held responsible if their customer kills someone with Solingen's knife. :stuart:

(This is the theory, I assume we know how the things stand in practice, but you are discussing theoretically. ).

2. Users, developers and hub owners - if developers do not have in mind the common hub rules, their client will quickly be banned, the community using it will shrink, popularity will fall. >> no new feature ideas, requests, bug reports>>bad client. And I am quite sure all will agree, this is just not our cup of tea (gosh, even rhymes). If YOU like, go and use the SMT mod, we can't do anything to stop you. It is a matter of choice. And actually there are only 2-3 features there which I see as "leacher" against all the others, which IMHO are very useful, and I hope to see the last group in Apex ASAP. As we do not force you avoid SMT mod, we expect you not to force us to implement all into Apex. And the root of the slot using are, as with all, users. If an uploader has a good speed, he would set a reasonable number of slots to allow acceptable speed for the downloaders. So regardless of the downloader's connection speed (if speed is low, he will take a small part of uploader speed, allowing the others to have their piece of the cake), when the download completes, the downloader will become uploader, and all his slots will be taken, but as long as users do not leave in vain (as nasty leechers), there is no problem. And since the problem with slots is present (even with the partials sharing), it is normal to assume that only a leecher will ask for such a feature, moreover Apex downloads fine now. And we do not like to have leechers between our users, not to perform leecher's requests.

3. Wrong/right - all is relative. In the past, the right people were at least burned (methods have refined nowadays ) so, the simple choice in front of a right man was right and dead (hated) or wrong and alive (liked), keep the embers and set the fire when there is no water (oh well, when conditions are better).

P. S. /me is asking for an excuse, but he is dead tired from an ice scating-party-exam marathon and apparently has some innertia for writing bs (it was a stupid hopeless exam ), also he has seen such discussions above and wanted to show how pointless they are. HTH you had fun reading. :whistling:

:Greg: Please move to Lounge if it is offtopic. Can't decide by myself.

!sleep Zlobomir say at least 2-4 hiours

[Crise 26]

no developer has the right to tell any user whats right or wrong its up to the user to decide. Who are we to take the moral high ground when we are all copyright infringers if you want to get technical about morality anyone who downloads anything on dc is a thief ! What client I use or what mod I use is my choice and if the hub doesnt like it its thier right to kick me it has nothing to do with who invented the technology or who improved on the technology. If we start punishing people who are creative and inventive there will be no improvments at all. I remember when everyone said strong dc was wrong. Without the kind of people who make mods apex wouldnt exist. thats my 2 cents.

TYRRAM, you can download and upload on DC without being a "thief" as P2P is just as legal as f.ex. knifes are.

You see, one may use a knife to cut slices of bread while the other may use knife for killing or stabbing people... same item but the way of use is what may or may not be illegal.

So if someone chooses/has chosen to make P2P technologies illegal they should also make many everyday items illegal as well... as P2P (and in our example knife) is just as legal or illegal as the user of it is.

This is just to show that you should never go with stereotypes, when making statements against or for some previous statement... you should stay with facts.

What developers have rights to do and what they don't is not that simple... so I am not even going into that here. But what i do say is that it indeed is developers responsibility to ensure that his software does not harm nor abuse (or have means to do so) what it's living from.

If we do think of SMT's mod alone it does not harm DC as a whole, but it sure has means of abusing it (to some extent every multisource client abuses DC in a way... because multisourcing is not something that this network was originally designed for, you can this from the fact that DC doesn't have such things as upload queue f.ex.)

So after this you may say that every multisource client is as bad as the other regardless of how it limits (or doesn't limit) the maximum amount of segments or what other limitations it may have.

But there is also other things that developer tries to achieve and one of them is making his software as efficient as possible. And here is where, in DC's case, developers have to make more than a few tough decision, because we have no magic tricks we can do to improve download speeds, so we have to "take" that speed somewhere in some cases it's compression but in many cases that has little or no impact so we need to do something else... we would f.ex. have to multisource.

Here we however face the limitations of the technology we are using and we should realize that excessive multisourcing does more harm than good, in an environment that's not particularly designed for it. Here is where our goals and responsibilities don't go hand in hand with each other and here is also where opinions differ.

There are three choices which each is represented in the wide variety of DC clients out there:

1. Developer decides that since the network is not designed for it it should not be done at all (this is also unfortunately the choice most hub/network owners prefer as well)

2. Developer decides that since it's not right to discard the fact that careless multisourcing may harm the network he has to make a compromise because he still sees the advantages of multisourcing and he sees not only those that affect the downloader but also those that affect the spreading of content in general. (I see the limitations that exist as this very compromise that has been made).

Before anyone says that 200 segments is also a limitation it's not solely about the fact that the limitation is there it needs to be sensible also, regards to this there was a good post done by BM on these forums somewhere but I was unable to find it for the time being.

This second choice is also the choice which I personally would like to see becoming more accepted amongst people.

3. Developer discards the limitations of the technology and thrives only for his goal with the expense of the other users. In this case also the advantages of faster spreading of content no longer even out with the resources (in our case slots) consumed from the network.

Edit: Darn you Zlobomir you were faster than me :whistling:

Edit 2: Also comparing P2P and knifes was not my idea originally, I read similar comparison waay back on one DC relatted forum, but can't remember the original poster anymore.

Edit 3: And the post i was referring in this post can be found here (the whole topic actually is pretty good discussion about the segment matter)

[Greg 0]

I would have to argue that developers do have the right to tell users what is right or wrong. Developers make every decision related to the client, they don't/can't leave it up to the user. A lot of users won't realise that having 200 segments would be bad at all... If we put the option in for people do have 200 segments per file then people would use it not understanding the consequences. We don't want this happening, people using our client in such a way that is detrimental to the network.

[SMT 0]

It's the developer's responsibility to ensure features are not abused within their client.

no, it should be defined by connection protocol. for now, dc++ does not have a lot of useful things (u/d ranking like in e-mule will be very good)

also i think clients must create private keys and user CID must be hash of key, not just username+hubname

if protocol allow cheat, user can't be considered as cheater

[Zlobomir 3]

no, it should be defined by connection protocol. for now, dc++ does not have a lot of useful things (u/d ranking like in e-mule will be very good)

also i think clients must create private keys and user CID must be hash of key, not just username+hubname

if protocol allow cheat, user can't be considered as cheater

...3. Wrong/right - all is relative. In the past, the right people were at least burned (methods have refined nowadays ) so, the simple choice in front of a right man was right and dead (hated) or wrong and alive (liked), keep the embers and set the fire when there is no water (oh well, when conditions are better).

...

:)

[Kevo 0]

no developer has the right to tell any user whats right or wrong its up to the user to decide. Who are we to take the moral high ground when we are all copyright infringers if you want to get technical about morality anyone who downloads anything on dc is a thief ! What client I use or what mod I use is my choice and if the hub doesnt like it its thier right to kick me it has nothing to do with who invented the technology or who improved on the technology. If we start punishing people who are creative and inventive there will be no improvments at all. I remember when everyone said strong dc was wrong. Without the kind of people who make mods apex wouldnt exist. thats my 2 cents.

Yes the developer does have the right to do that. They know what's good for the network, and what isn't, unlike some n00b who doesn't know how to even forward a port or knows what a TCP packet is used for. There are very good reasons for blocking the users who use these programs, they bring back the DC network even farther back into the past compared to where the bulk of P2P networks are. They create excessive traffic (as if DC isn't already ****ty enough as it is for this) bogging down the other nodes and the hubs they are connected to. To make a mod, the developer should be responsible enough to know what his/her modifications will be and how they will affect the network.

StrongDC and ApexDC try to do what they believe is right for the network, implementing features they believe will not harm the other nodes. There was a time when Apex (peerwebdc at the time) was going to make it more than 10segments, then I decided to make a big stink about it and banned it from the peerweb hub until they removed it, so don't say I blindly follow these programs.

[Lord Squeak 0]

I once got banned for using a hacked cheating client on a hub,, I was using apex.

clearly an Op who did'nt know what he was doing.

but.. mods like this one will make occurances such as that more frequent.

because some Ops cant tell the difference between a modded version and an ok version.

thank you for listening , I would also like to thank my mom who made this post possible, my friends and my Isp , who whichout I would'nt be able to be here today. I'd also like to thank all you out there who are reading this. Thank you thank you.

[Teobald 0]

Hi all,

users can ban/ block each other from uploading with that modification. Because of that, i do think this client already harms DC. And you're making this client even more popular by giving the link on your Forum. Clients with that kind of features will ruin DC.

Regards Teo

[Crise 26]

Well, well... who did bring this topic back from the ashes? None of us I'm afraid.

Anyways, we do not recommend this mod, (200 segements is one of the reasons, but not the only one) and as far as I know it's also kicked out from the official support hub... (hence it not being the official version) the link is there yeah, but if it makes you feel better now that bad link is gone

I think our (ApexDC Staff) view has been made clear by now and it's of no use to keep this going further...

[Lee 84]

Hi all,

users can ban/ block each other from uploading with that modification. Because of that, i do think this client already harms DC. And you're making this client even more popular by giving the link on your Forum. Clients with that kind of features will ruin DC.

Regards Teo

There's no link other than one in a signature which we'll happily allow (not direct advertising). Now since you've just sparked new interest in this topic, you've unintentially made it more popular.

I'll close this.