Direct Connect and the Future

[Aztek 2]

Hello,

I have been thinking about the DC++ protocol and how it works. If i compare it to the BitTorrent protocol, BitTorrent has "unlimited" slots and it has "unlimited" segments and it doesn't download file from start to end. DC however is limited on slots, segments and it downloads from start to end.

If DC was made ignoring slots, making each file get a specific count of parts according to size and downloading randomly into the file, true it would be a lot of mocking torrent but hey both are open source, right ?

Okay it might not sound very good for some people and doing it might require lot of work both for hub creators and client creators, the protocol might not need to be changed, maybe a bit and then call it something else DCS (Direct Connect Segemented) or something.

People are leaving DC because torrent offers more speed, with this the speed might increase quite a bit, or not but i am not a person that can calculate those numbers. (please leave comments)

If DC starts offering better speeds and less centralization (possibly) it would make it closer to the torrents, still being the good' old DC

So please post oppinions, mods if you dont like this discussion please leave it open for others to discuss it.

This post has been posted in more spots than this one, please rewiew comments there too:

http://www.ynhub.org/forum/showthread.php?p=38739

Edited April 27, 2007 by Aztek

[iceman50 0]

if you want to download like BitTorrent... then use bittorrent not DC

[Aztek 2]

thats not my point, i dont like BT like DC, why i dont know, just like dc more :)

[MiRaGe 0]

i also like dc++ more, and don't believe it'll loose so many users because of torrents' advantages (or maybe it's a long time i checked torrents )

when torrenting ... unlimited uploads and unlimited downloads mean --> speed = x/unlimited --> sometimes near 0 (actually i learnad advanced mathematics for 3 years in university, but a 6 year old can tell the same )

getting a torrent file to be able to download some stuff is sometimes even harder then getting a reg to a special dc hub, and i believe rules are made for the users, not against the users (i wish even the users would believe this )

and finally (for at least now) clients with multisource (with unlimited or 100 or sg like that) download "kill" dc ... okay .... i'm on dc for several years (since napster became a paying stuff, okay... there was a little break in filesharing) .... and i've seen bearshare, torrent, soulseek, kazaa .... everytime ppl said "this is the next generation of filesharing" "the best" ... and don't know where are those now, but dc++ still rocks in p2p

so .... i don't think some fusion between dc and torrent is needed (and indeed there would be many incompatibilities)

[Excelsium 0]

Theres files on DC that cannot be found with BT.

Also has communities BT does not have.

Have to use both :>.

Therefore the idea is interesting.

But still need to have some kind of hubs 'Virtual' or 'Real' centralized ones.

because of the communities and rare files that brings.

[Zlobomir 3]

I think it is good, if it offers smth better. Why not having the same rare files nowhere to be found, at higher speed, with the same or even greater communities? If smo is against, I dare to say it is bringing us back to Inquisition days. :)

[Seeker 0]

thats not my point, i dont like BT like DC, why i dont know, just like dc more

1. BT needs creation of .torrent files for every file/pack.

2. BT has an online often forum community. Easier to track down.

3. BT often requires to seed 1/1, and enforces silly Hit-n-Run rules

4. BT has a limited file life time

5. BT requires to seed files, which in term means keeping the stuff unpacked in order to achieve a good ratio, which in term means clutter on your HDD's and unnecessary duplicates (when i donwload 5GB game, i need to seed it for like a week, so i unpack and play it, which means i need to waste 5GB for seed, 5GB for unpack.)

6. When using BT for a while like end of the week i often need to look if files are 1/1 seeded, decide if i want to unpack and rearrange them thoroughout my HDD's or still seed. Wasting often 1 hour or more for organization, moving unpacking etc.

1. DC shares files as are.

2. DC has an online active hub based community. Harder to track down.

3. DC does not require you to seed to 1/1 ratio, but often enforces REG rules.

4. DC has an unlimited file life time, and allows users to share insane ammounts of data, imagine how many torrents seeding you'd need for that.

5. DC just shares unpacked or packed files dependent on the mood of user (some games i have i may never unpack and just share wihle othrs i may unpack and still share without having unnecessary duplicates.

6. When using DC i just download files, dont care if they're shared enough or not, rearrange them to whereever i want packed or unpacked and again "seed", while with torrent i cant touch them, need to stay as they are, also spliting my organization time by more then half.

Do this points mean more then just faster speeds and constant "seeding", wasting god knows how many time. Couse we all have **** upload speeds, are we so expected to share to 1/1 when having 5mbit/512kbit. DC free's you of this limitations. Yes we know its not perfect, slot usage, 'maybe' slower speeds, misorganization of files (unlike BT which makes file listing available on teh web).

This is a simple comparison of DC vs. BT network, one might find a similar one in favor of BT on some torrent site, but hey you decide.

[ifmn 0]

Why didn't you post the good sides of BT ? I personally achieve much greater speeds with it, less leeching, the load is divided between users, not only the main seeder/s with 100%, i would say trackers are more reliable than hubs, i don't have to connect to 100000 hubs to download from all sources and maybe even more i cant think of right now...

[3dfx 2]

deja vu,m ?

http://www.ynhub.org/forum/showthread.php?t=6547 :lol:

[Aztek 2]

yes i posted this on two forums to get more response

you can see they are posted at the same time ^_^

[Seeker 0]

Why didn't you post the good sides of BT ? I personally achieve much greater speeds with it, less leeching, the load is divided between users, not only the main seeder/s with 100%, i would say trackers are more reliable than hubs, i don't have to connect to 100000 hubs to download from all sources and maybe even more i cant think of right now...

Personally if i had 10mbit/10mbit connection id never use DC aside from the community factor. For downloading i pimarily use BT but the seeding rules are killing me. Also i use a tracker which has about 5000 members, this is even less then 1 public hub. And i know what your thinking, but then again im on a hub that has 300 members with 300TB share. Dont you think this i badass compared to that tracker. I can get whatever i want.

[MiRaGe 0]

btw .... if i donwload sg there is an option to automatically share it until i close dc client, right? .... so sg *like* it is already there .... so if i download sg from an 0-day hub, and i'm also on some opened hub, the ppl who are on that opened hub can also download the chunk that i've downloaded, right?

either way ... i think dc is the one for me ... at least it's sg i know how to use the best and can find almost anything that exists (and of course i'm interested in) :lol:

[3dfx 2]

the bottom line is both have good and bad sides.thats how stuff works

[Aztek 2]

yes but i am talking about combining the good sides into the dc :lol:

[ifmn 0]

I meant that in BT you only have to download the torrent and the tracker is in it, you can add more if you want, but in dc you have to enter hubs manually. Dunno how many users use thepiratebay and so on. So do you mind sharing this cool hub with me/us ? :lol:

[Zlobomir 3]

I meant that in BT you only have to download the torrent and the tracker is in it, you can add more if you want, but in dc you have to enter hubs manually. Dunno how many users use thepiratebay and so on. So do you mind sharing this cool hub with me/us ?

Hehe, don't you assume it might be very private, requiring too high share (unbearable HDD volume for most Bulgarians at least)?

Also Seeker, I did not get your thought about space used for sharing. Neither system allows you "save the half". In BT and DC you can share "files not requiring modification to run", and in both you can't (useless in DC) to share installed games. But unlike DC, its harder to find a torrent of installed game. Sorry, a little ugly explanation. :lol:

[ifmn 0]

I assumed, but you know that there's always some hope

Ever downloaded a rared game/movie ? To use it, you have to unrar it. But you must share the .rar files, not the unrar-ed ones. So to keep uploading and still being able to play (the movie or install the game/app again) you have to keep both sources - the .rars and the extracted file. So you waste 2x HDD space.

[Seeker 0]

Hehe, don't you assume it might be very private, requiring too high share (unbearable HDD volume for most Bulgarians at least)?

Also Seeker, I did not get your thought about space used for sharing. Neither system allows you "save the half". In BT and DC you can share "files not requiring modification to run", and in both you can't (useless in DC) to share installed games. But unlike DC, its harder to find a torrent of installed game. Sorry, a little ugly explanation.

Not quite suree what you mean. I dont mean about installed games. I mean in BT you need to keep a torrent which is a .rar'ed game. When extracted for instance it extracts to .iso or bin/cue, so in BT you need to keep .rar's to be able to seed and have a duplicate .iso extraction to play. In DC you just extract the rar's and share the .iso.

I assumed, but you know that there's always some hope

Ever downloaded a rared game/movie ? To use it, you have to unrar it. But you must share the .rar files, not the unrar-ed ones. So to keep uploading and still being able to play (the movie or install the game/app again) you have to keep both sources - the .rars and the extracted file. So you waste 2x HDD space.

All depends on your share, you might even get suprized by an invitation

Yes you have to waste 2x for torrents, not for DC, for DC you just keep the extracted ones, without rar.

[Zlobomir 3]

Yes, silly me, I got the point. But it is not quite so regarding BG torrents, because:

1. There are not so strict rules to seed only rars. So it depends on the releaser, as in DC one can share the rars instead of iso, if stupid enuf. However might be good, since it is better to redownload a broken part than a broken image, and probably you agree BT is more stable.

2. I am really impressed by the new Magic ISO format, which allows to create, along with other extras, smth like "zipped iso", which can be "unzipped on loading" in the virtual CD.

Regarding the hub, might I/we even get surprised by an invitation? I expect valuable stuff there. :P

[Greg 0]

For the general/easy to obtain stuff use bittorrent/USENET, for hard to get/older stuff you have to use one of the 3 sources; DC, BT or USENET. Some of the small specific communities on BT have stuff which is virtually unavailable elsewhere, but it's the same with some DC hubs (mainly private ones). Bittorrent is good for stuff with plenty of sources, so it would make sense to use BT for that, or can even use USENET.

To me DC serves a different purpose, generally to get files unattainable elsewhere, lets not just pointlessly clone BT.

[Zlobomir 3]

Dunno why we mess with USENET, is it free? fyi I don't have a CC to activate a trial. :P

[Greg 0]

A lot of ISPs (in the UK at least) offer a free USENET service, but generally you pay an amount monthly for a subscription from a company such as giganews. USENET as been around since before the internet, was originally used as a method of communication to distribute news etc. but a lot of its use now is to distribute illegal/copyrighted files.

[Excelsium 0]

yea.. It must not become more difficult/time/resource consuming to share or the long tail will be cut short :>

DC is great in those areas.

[Zlobomir 3]

A lot of ISPs (in the UK at least) offer a free USENET service, but generally you pay an amount monthly for a subscription from a company such as giganews. USENET as been around since before the internet, was originally used as a method of communication to distribute news etc. but a lot of its use now is to distribute illegal/copyrighted files.

Great, but it is like to call Windows free because mr. Gates does not pay for it. I don't say the tax is to high for a normal country, but we are discussing on principle. :P

[Aztek 2]

im currently running a TEST hub that will be up for 1 DAY !

its got minslots 100, and all users must be active

just want to see how dc works with those settings, even in a small enviroment...

i think 4 users should do it if you could come test and please use apexdc

if you can find the speedmod that would be cool too

213.167.146.181:2000

this hub will be closed tomorrow at around 1800