New release?

[curse 0]

However i indend to keep to lee's dead line, which i calculate as 01/11/06 11:53AM BST. smile.gif

Any progress? it would be nice to se an early beta or something.

it's always fun to hunt bugs

[Lee 84]

Any progress? it would be nice to se an early beta or something.

it's always fun to hunt bugs

He never specified a beta would be available by that date. :)

[curse 0]

that wasn't really what I ment...

but, in some places on this forum it's stated that help would be welcomed, but without something to test with, it's hard to help.

[amp 0]

I wonder why other products, even more popular, have publicly available cvs access. Why we have here a top secret-o development, I can't understand... Same with whole Apex though...

[Crise 26]

I wonder why other products, even more popular, have publicly available cvs access. Why we have here a top secret-o development, I can't understand... Same with whole Apex though...

We have our reasons, and they are good, even if i can't say them here :)

[amp 0]

Forcing people who are too curious to pay for betas (become subscribers)? Or to knock down concurents ("opensource concurents" sounds... hm... ridiculous?) by disallowing them to use your latest code? I can imagine a couple of other reasons...

[Tom 0]

Forcing people who are too curious to pay for betas (become subscribers)? Or to knock down concurents ("opensource concurents" sounds... hm... ridiculous?) by disallowing them to use your latest code? I can imagine a couple of other reasons...

Our development is behind closed doors because we have such a small team. The source code for releases is readily available.

And who says anything about 'forcing' them? We need to pay for costs somehow, and if users are prepared to donate in return for access to pre-release builds, why shouldn't we do so?

[Lee 84]

And this doesn't slow down stable releases, it merely allows us to reduce the bugs in them. Previously in PeerWeb DC++ we didn't have a sufficient testing team, and therefore our 'stable' releases suffered.

Regarding the linux project, if anyone has any programming experience in linux, contact one of our admins. :)

[amp 0]

Ok, here's one example. http://www.jimm.org/ My favourite mobile icq-client. Development team seems to be even smaller than yours. But the project has public cvs access and frequent cvs builds (betas). So, community can see how its going, test new builds much. Some people (like me ) can also download latest cvs code and try to build it.

So, where we can discuss the latest client features, make new feature requests or even contribute usefull code!

And what we have here? Lots of discussion threads, unanswered feature requests and bug reports. We have to wait months to see if something is changed during last release :-/

[Lee 84]

Er, you're trying to discuss a linux project that has no experienced coder for it. You can't expect frequent development builds (which we've decided to supply only to subscribers/supporters/testers). Currently there is little code for this linux program, and this is why we're asking for anyone with experience to step forward.

StrongDC++ does not allow you to download and compile the latest cvs, since people use his source and release their own open source client on the latest features before him!

Open source does not require a public cvs.

Bug reports are looked into when they are submitted, and if a fix is available, we fix it. It's been only a month since our last release, and this is because we're very busy (I for one are now at university)... that doesnt mean our previous releases have been so far apart. Anyway, we're waiting until a stable StrongDC++ release is available before releasing 0.3.0.

[amp 0]

I'm trying to discuss whole Apex development

StrongDC++ does not allow you to download and compile the latest cvs, since people use his source and release their own open source client on the latest features before him!

As it doesn't paid, why bother?

And as they forced to be opensource too, you may get good ideas from them too!

[Crise 26]

As it doesn't paid, why bother?

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by this, if you mean that StrongDC doesn't offer possibility to donate and get cvs'es that way, you're wrong as BM does accept donations

And as they forced to be opensource too, you may get good ideas from them too!

Forced to be open source, again I'm not 100% sure what you mean here, but we are glad to be open source, and unless I'm not mistaken so is StrongDC++ also remember the reasons why cvs for SDC was closed... they were: to end the flow of complaints regarding cvs versions stability plus the one already mentioned by Lee. (if I'm wrong on this one feel free to correct me)

If you mean we could learn from those that would mod our sources, you're right and we do that, there just isn't many mods of ApexDC++ yet.

[amp 0]

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by this

I mean that program is a freeware, only thing you can expect is donation. Mods won't take your bread, so why bother about them?

Forced to be open source, again I'm not 100% sure what you mean here

I meant that making a mod of opensource program you are forced to make it opensource too. This means, that you may check source-code of any mod and take good idea to your project.

to end the flow of complaints regarding cvs versions stability plus the one already mentioned by Lee

Hey, cvs is just a source code. If a user can compile it, he would also be able to handle it. Many projects offers even nightly builds, for those who are on the edge of developing process. They put a disclaimer about stability and also have a place to report bugs from new builds. Large community with lots of testers might help in improving of functionality and stability. Why do you think betas of new Vista are so prevalent?

[Lee 84]

Hey, cvs is just a source code. If a user can compile it, he would also be able to handle it. Many projects offers even nightly builds, for those who are on the edge of developing process. They put a disclaimer about stability and also have a place to report bugs from new builds. Large community with lots of testers might help in improving of functionality and stability. Why do you think betas of new Vista are so prevalent?

Um, Vista doesnt have a cvs, or daily builds given to a large amount of users. Why have you decided to take over this linux discussion with a general discussion of development?

Mods take our popularity, our users, which is a lot for a freeware/open source community.

Anyway, we're not going to have a public svn, so don't ask. ;)

[Crise 26]

Hey, cvs is just a source code. If a user can compile it, he would also be able to handle it. Many projects offers even nightly builds, for those who are on the edge of developing process. They put a disclaimer about stability and also have a place to report bugs from new builds. Large community with lots of testers might help in improving of functionality and stability. Why do you think betas of new Vista are so prevalent?

Well the problem is that you don't need to know how to compile a cvs version (or in our case svn version) to get it as many people are so kind out there that they redistribute compiled builds, and thus users using them doesn't necessarily have any idea of what kind of build he or she is using... thus causing a headache for us.

And as Lee said we won't be having public svn, we never had one, and never will... so it's pointless to ask. (and just to make clear nothing requires us to have one either)

Side note, regarding subscriptions: also as per GPL asking money for download (and in our case also usage) rights for GPL'ed software is also allowed... and besides subscriptions are to support the project mainly, not to get access to development builds (it's just an added treat) so we are not even technically asking any money for download rights, we merely provide a possibility for users to support ApexDC++ project and it's development, and of course we want to give something in return for their contribution.

Also remember that anyone can per Staff decision be invited to become a Beta Tester, as some have already...

Also before someone asks, what we look in a member when we consider inviting user as a tester... well I'm not going to tell you that as we don't want anyone to specifically aim to become a Beta Tester...

[amp 0]

Um, Vista doesnt have a cvs, or daily builds given to a large amount of users

Hm, it doesn't have cvs because it's closed-source. But I saw lots of builds which are not official Beta nor RC ones. So, it's almost like nightly builds . I haven't checked, but some say, they allows everyone to join betatesting for free.

Why have you decided to take over this linux discussion with a general discussion of development?

Because of similarity of the situation .

Mods take our popularity, our users, which is a lot for a freeware/open source community.

I've tryed a lot of SDC mods. And everytime conclusion was - it's the same SDC but with some lil' cosmetic change - another logo and icon set, one lil crappy new function - and thats all. I've stopped on your mod just because I hope you (dev-team) are not so stubborn for new ideas as BM in some cases. And I wish to see not a bit modded version of SDC, but a cool new client .

Anyway, we're not going to have a public svn, so don't ask.

Sounds like i'm a secret agent, willing to know your country's biggest secret . Maybe you'll at least post a changelog or so and make more public previews? Say, one per two weeks?

many people are so kind out there that they redistribute compiled builds, and thus users using them doesn't necessarily have any idea of what kind of build he or she is using...

You have a version number in window title. Put a disclaimer in support forum, that versions above #LAST_OFFICAL# are betas and unsupported.

[Crise 26]

Maybe you'll at least post a changelog or so and make more public previews? Say, one per two weeks?

Nah, we don't want to spoil the surprise from you

And releasing more public previews won't happen, as none of us is working on this project full time, and especially now that Lee is at uni, I have many non-programming related tasks lined up also, and i doubt I'll ever get them all done... (mostly because I'm not used to doing them)

You have a version number in window title. Put a disclaimer in support forum, that versions above #LAST_OFFICAL# are betas and unsupported.

That won't stop users from complaining plus I know how many don't read the sticky topics / forum rules at all...

[Tom 0]

I mean that program is a freeware, only thing you can expect is donation. Mods won't take your bread, so why bother about them?

I meant that making a mod of opensource program you are forced to make it opensource too. This means, that you may check source-code of any mod and take good idea to your project.

Hey, cvs is just a source code. If a user can compile it, he would also be able to handle it. Many projects offers even nightly builds, for those who are on the edge of developing process. They put a disclaimer about stability and also have a place to report bugs from new builds. Large community with lots of testers might help in improving of functionality and stability. Why do you think betas of new Vista are so prevalent?

Oh, come on! There is no way you can compare a closed-source operating system created by an enormous multi-national corporation with many thousands of employees with a small open-source project with a development team whose numbers can be counted on your fingers.

[Crise 26]

whose numbers can be counted on your fingers.

...with fingers of one hand even ;)

[Lee 84]

Maybe you'll at least post a changelog or so and make more public previews? Say, one per two weeks?

Then you'll have very little to play with, since this program isn't worked on full time. Releasing an insufficient program in terms of features is not our objective. We want to provide users with major changes each public release, which is why it's taking so long (although, like I said above, we're practically ready).

[amp 0]

Nah, we don't want to spoil the surprise from you

But community is dead without any updates. We here just waiting and talking and debate... I still can't figure if previous debates have any results though. Also as my feature requests or bug reports

And releasing more public previews won't happen, as none of us is working on this project full time

Envolve more developers!

especially now that Lee is at uni

Hehe, i'm on the last year in my univ "Best days of your life" as it said here

That won't stop users from complaining plus I know how many don't read the sticky topics / forum rules at all...

It's all about usability and ergonomics. Read about them, it helps in UI designs much.

with a small open-source project with a development team whose numbers can be counted on your fingers

I've put an example couple of post above this thread

We want to provide users with major changes each public release, which is why it's taking so long

Imagine, vanilla DC++ has such delays between releases and won't show you any sources or betas :)

[Crise 26]

Imagine, vanilla DC++ has such delays between releases and won't show you any sources or betas

DC++ has had major delays between some releases, they have an open svn that's true... but we don't and besides is a month (or a few) too much delay between software release, I think not especially considering what's the situation here.

But community is dead without any updates. We here just waiting and talking and debate... I still can't figure if previous debates have any results though. Also as my feature requests or bug reports

Lee has given you an update on this topic, as I also have in TGO main chat today...

Hehe, i'm on the last year in my univ "Best days of your life" as it said here

Most likely true, but I like the fact that you miss my point in that...

Envolve more developers!

They don't grow in trees, you know

It's all about usability and ergonomics. Read about them, it helps in UI designs much.

And how does this have anything to do with the quote you associated it with...

[Lee 84]

Right, I've split the topic since we're not just talking about the linux program. Amp, we've speficically asked anyone with experience to step forward, show us what he can do and we'll work on him becoming part of the development team. ;)

[Big Muscle 1]

amp, could you show some law which says that CVS must be available? that developer has to release new build when you say that you want it??

[amp 0]

DC++ has had major delays between some releases, they have an open svn that's true...

Open svn and public betas . So, as many OS projects do.

Lee has given you an update on this topic

A drop in the ocean...

Most likely true, but I like the fact that you miss my point in that...

I meant, that univ is cool, yes, but not so big argument to me. Furthermore, Lee is a coordinator, not coder, isn't he?

They don't grow in trees, you know

As for me, I found it strange, that creating a mod of a mod is more popular than contributing and getting envolved... Something's wrong here at that point...

And how does this have anything to do with the quote you associated it with...

There you can read WHY people do not read such posts and HOW to make them read! Unfortunelly, can't recommend you any title, because I doesn't know where proper name in english.

amp, could you show some law which says that CVS must be available? that developer has to release new build when you say that you want it??

I'm not saying "MUST", but "COULD YOU PLEASE?".

And I know your point of view from your forums. I haven't registered there, but I read a couple of topics.