Segmented downloading ruining DC

[azarot 0]

So, i've been using DC since the old Neo Modus, however for the last 1½ year or so i've taken a break from it, using other things. Recently I decided to use it again, and instead of using just DC++ I decided to try ApexDC++ as the multi source download seemed very attractive to me. Then for some time I got surprised on how so few people actually have any spots open, and i've been wondering it about it for some time now.

Then today I looked at what sources I was downloading from, and saw this:

http://img95.imageshack.us/my.php?image=aplexkl9.jpg

No wonder if im having such a hard time finding people with open slots, of course not everyone uses Apex, or any other multi source DC client (im not aware of that many of em), but just on this thing im occupying 4 slots from one guy.

Im interested what others opinion is, personally I love multisource downloading, I was waiting for something like that forever in DC++, but with situation like this it kinda makes it a win-loose thing with the way DC works.

[Crise 26]

well it's not our fault the same user is in all of (or at least 4 of them) the hubs you are in

You can only take one slot per user, but same user on different hub is considered as different user by (Apex)DC++ because of the pesudo CID's used in non-ADC environment

to put it short you can only take one slot per user per hub, because of the CID's used in NMDC-environment

[Lee 84]

We assume this won't be the case in ADC.

[Kulmegil 1]

Issue is not directly connected to segmented downloading, but when segmented DL hits in the possibility to occur is a lot higher.

This issue can be fixed by few lines of code - limiting number of uploads from single IP address - well it's not perfect (NAT people), but will do. I would recommended excluding favorite users, small files, filelists, ect. from limit.

You can check sdc++ hidden forum for my (crappy) code

I think ADC will solve it for most cases but not for lusers running "cheating" or multiple clients at once.

I'm not any authority in "how DC should look like" but I have some opinions about it.

First - why is it good? - DC was one of very few P2P networks witch didn't allow downloading single file from multiple sources. Even using download manager You can download from multiple FTP / HTTP sources at once!

Well coz it just doesn't work for P2P networks. Maybe it would be good for a LAN networking, and some elite (closed probably) hubs with ALL people with shinning, fast connections but for general it's not good. A lot of users has sucking DSL's witch doesn't allow to rich higher speeds for single connection.

Not just that - ability to capture more then one slot for rare file is giving greater chance of finishing downloading - even if one of the users disconnects.

Also limited number of segments is necessary to make PFS / SuperSeeding mechanism more efficient.

Number of segments really should always be chosen based on file size and connection possibilities. Unfortunately a lot of idiots doesn't understand this and not only set max segments but also looks for clients allowing them to use "unlimited" number of segments. There aren't that much people who has good enough connections to really need more then 10 segments. They could just put some more files to queue or use other software for gathering files (or search for hubs with higher restrictions about user connection speeds for example). I also cannot say absolutely that just by stupid limiting max segments we can solve all the bad since problem is rather: "how much slots singe user "eats" comparing to his/her connection (and upload connection in the first place!) possibilities".

It's not just users but developers fault. Yeah. Starting from those who don't care about DC network or lacking imagination making their own or mod. other DC clients. But the problem is a bit deeper... let's just say this - DC network wasn't designed very resistant to cheaters (this sux) and - wasn't designed with any ratio, nor any awards for "good" uploaders (except getting into better hubs). Also standard slot system, although simple and fair it looks, it's just not efficient when coming against multisegment downloading. I think real upload queue* and something like "slot rotation"** and all stuff that comes under PFS idea***. I didn't mention credits (like emule)... I just don't like this idea. If credits would be something that is shared globally and be very cheating resistant maybe I would be convinced.

Summary? Segmented downloading is both a curse and necessity these days. But the question is not whenever multisegment should be or should be not! It's far to late to ask such question and there is no really turning back is there? DC needs improvements to handle it, and when properly handled it will become better then when it was non-segmented P2P network - at least that's what I belive.

* that just means no one should be able to "cut" into the line, right?

** in short : slot expires after some (based on waiting queue size) and user is putted at the bottom of the queue, idea need some thinking probably

** not only sharing completed parts but also smartest possible distribution of those parts - sounds like torrent doesn't it?

[TYRRAM 0]

This may sound crazy to all u techies who can see the tech limits but I dream of a day and of a DC++ that has UNLIMITED slots, UNLIMITED segments per download and UNLIMITED downloads and uploads per user and of hyperclients that can keep up without hangup. Whatever it is that opposes this enevitable evolution whether it be isp or clients or line speeds should just get it together or get out of the way. change or die !! hahahahahaha

[Kulmegil 1]

Well speaking of: I would like just super-fast connection and unlimited storage matrix super resistant to aging, damages, fragmentation and stuff

But for now I managed to get pretty good storage space with a low, low student income :)

[Excelsium 0]

If the file is popular then there will be many sharing and many slots available to get that file.

I think in the future upload slots per user will increase if segmented downloading is used by more users to counteract the problem of not enough slots which causes delay in obtaining the file, nothing more.

If the file is not popular then theres probably nothing any one can do to speed up the download.

-Amount of users that want the file is low.

-Amount of users that share the file is low.

[Zlobomir 3]

Considering that partial file sharing is on, and that a user who has finished faster with more slots taken hopefully will become a sharer, thus compensating for the more slots taken before, I do not see this as major problem. If there are leechers or slow-speed users, it is a limit and nothing can be done...

Looking at this as a moment "snapshot" it is a problem, but in terms of the sharing process imho it is ok.

[irish 0]

Well speaking of: I would like just super-fast connection and unlimited storage matrix super resistant to aging, damages, fragmentation and stuff

But for now I managed to get pretty good storage space with a low, low student income

I'd like to clone myself, so that i could read, listen, watch stuff all the stuff i downloaded.

M

[Satan 1]

Serves that guy right for having a connection that fast if you ask me :)

[Lee 84]

Serves that guy right for having a connection that fast if you ask me

Been a long time Satan, welcome back. :D

[Satan 1]

Hehe thanks, i got my HDD's fixed (almost) so hopefully i'll be joining everyone back on DC :)